artmouth Free Press: You’ve spoken to the press on a wide array of issues; you’ve denounced the Dubai ports deal, called for an investigation into coal mining safety, and been involved with a black farmers’ lawsuit. What issue are you most passionate about? What seems most important right now?
Artur Davis: Making sure that people who are working hard, that people who are playing by the rules, still count. We have a major problem in this country that there are a lot of people who do everything we ask them to—they go to school, they work, they work hard, they marry, they raise families, and they are still struggling at every single level for economic security. Sometimes they work in enormously dangerous places like mines, sometimes they’re working without health insurance, [and] sometimes they’re working in environments that don’t treat them right or that malign them. Those are the people who really move me to action.
Public policy has a host of challenging issues around it, but I think the key to getting what you should get out of a political life is bringing a set of values to the table and trying to build your work around those values. I got involved in the black farmers’ issues because a lot of these men and women just got a raw deal. The government settled a case with them, then did everything [it] could to prevent them from getting what they were promised.
I’ve gotten involved with the miners because they are very heroic people; in fact, I’ll be testifying on Wednesday at the hearing involving miners because they’re very heroic and very good people who face all kinds of risks every day, and we won’t even, as a matter of law, institute basic safety standards and basic enforcement provisions that need to be there.
I’ve gotten involved around these issues involving poor children because kids don’t pick their families. They don’t fill out a form to be born in a low-income and impoverished household or household without health insurance, and they’re blameless; they are innocent victims of all kinds of forces around them, and we have a real obligation to empowering children and to lifting children out of conditions that are pernicious.
So it’s empowering people who play by the rules and empowering people who are vulnerable and are blameless. Those two kinds of things really move me in politics.
DFP: The Alabama 7th is the third poorest district in the country. What do you think needs to be done to fight poverty?
AD: We have to do a substantially better job of targeting and identifying at-risk children and steering those children to better outcomes. That means much earlier, much more proactive intervention with at-risk children. It means building structures and schools that don’t give up on them or write them off so easily, and ultimately it means coming up with a job-training component for the kids who aren’t going to go to two or four year colleges but can still be productive members of the work-force. If we manage to do that combination of things, I think you would take a class of young men and women who are destined for poverty, and you would move them out of it.
The second thing which you have to do is…change the expectations around communities. Most very poor communities are saddled with very low expectations. You have to get the people in those communities to believe in the value of education; you have to get them to believe in the value of all kinds of things, from civic engagement to infrastructure. If you can raise expectations in communities, you will get better political outcomes, and that’s been a challenge that we don’t see everyday. It’s been kind of a silent challenge. But as I move around the rural part of my district, the poorest part of my district, I encounter way too many people who have written off their own communities, way too many people who accept that their areas have been poor and will stay poor. If you change that thought process, then I think you will also [see] a whole lot of changed outcomes.
DFP: Do you think the minimum wage should be raised, and if so, to what level? What do you think the economic impacts of this move would be?
AD: I think it ought to be raised. I forget the exact numbers that get kicked around and disputed right now, but I think that the bottom line is that Congress has not raised the minimum wage in a number of years, and the reality is that wages have been stagnant for significant numbers of people in the service sector in this economy. In fact, there’s been erosion in the relative purchasing power of people in the service sector—in other words, the people who would benefit from the minimum wage being raised.
In terms of what the economic impact would be, I think it would be an anti-poverty tool. It would be a tool for getting a little bit more economic security in to these families. The larger question is that we have a lot of people in the service economy, particularly working mothers, who are stuck in jobs with no social mobility, and the minimum wage is a part of it, but it’s only one part of it. The next component has to be worker’s skills. Raising the minimum wage without putting programs in place to improve worker’s skills…[would give you] a failed strategy….I think the problem is that when it comes to poverty in this country, we tend to have an either/or approach. We tend to think, okay, we’re either going to do this one thing or not. The reality is that you’ve got to do a combination of things. Wage security is one of them, but preparing people to do the range of work that’s available, and preparing people to be socially mobile, is also an equally important challenge.
DFP: Wal-Mart has a large presence in communities like the ones you represent; what kind of economic impact do you think the store has?
AD: Well, the reality of Wal-Mart, I think, is twofold. There is no question that Wal-Mart needs to make a stronger commitment—a much stronger commitment—to providing health care and a stronger wage base for its workers. At the same time, there’s also no question that Wal-Mart provides a supply base for a lot of very low income people who live in rural America… It provides low prices for a lot of people who do not have the wherewithal to travel to the mall in some other community, or who can’t buy at a more boutique outfit, and I think you almost have to be a rural Southerner to understand that.It’s very easy to view Wal-Mart as part of a purely pernicious force if you’re in another part of the country, but obviously if you’re on the ground, in parts of my district or parts of Arkansas where Wal-Mart was born, you have to recognize that there are people who are walking in there and buying things they couldn’t afford to get elsewhere.
Now the challenge for Wal-Mart is to come up with corporate policies that are as socially responsible and as accountable as possible, because Wal-Mart, frankly, has a unique roll in a lot of low-income communities. It’s often a major employer, it’s often a major supplier of consumer goods, and I think there’s a level of responsibility that comes with that. That responsibility certainly includes expanded healthcare, it certainly includes more environmentally friendly policies, and it certainly includes stronger worker protection [and child labor] policies, but I’m not as quick as some people are to say that Wal-Mart is this wholly evil, pernicious force. I think the reality is more divided than that.
DFP: I am a semi-rural Southerner, originally, and it is an issue I am passionate about. Have you seen the numbers from the store on the environment and child labor and things like that?
AD: Oh, there are certainly numbers; I’m always discouraged when I look at the child labor issues around Wal-Mart. I’m always discouraged when I look at the environmental issues, and that’
s the broader social responsibility that I would like to see, but the reality is… the issues around Wal-Mart expose another problem: the difficulty of providing consumer goods at a cheap price to large numbers of low income people in this country. … [T]here are counties in my district where… Wal-Mart is the major employer base. And sure, the wages are lower than they should be, sure, the level of insurance is even missing or inadequate, but it’s still an employer base, so I think that we have to figure out ways to move WM toward a greater level of social and corporate responsibility.
DFP: The Alabama 7th was on the very edge of Katrina’s path; how hard hit was it?
AD: My district was not substantially affected by Katrina. We were a little bit too far inland. We struggled with absorbing evacuees in the first week, and I remember one story about Katrina, in terms of my personal experience, that was probably day three or four. We had a significant number of evacuees, at that time probably around 10 or 15 thousand in the state, and we started having these fuel shortages. Literally, there were two counties in my district that ran out of gasoline, and then the word came to our office that these counties had closed their pumps. There were all these rumors floating around: the Governor was going to declare a fuel holiday and close all the pumps in the state, or at least in some areas, [and] we were getting all kinds of calls from our staff about disasters on the ground, about homeless shelters that didn’t have food, about all kinds of human crises around Katrina. For that little window of time, it just looked as if the world was unraveling. I… remember sitting in my office with my staff on Wednesday afternoon, when it looked like the world was just literally coming unglued. That was a very dangerous time for social stability in this country… Their were significant numbers of people in this country [who] felt that their government had let them down, and they felt that their lifetime was a pattern of their government and the rest of society letting them down, and that just was profoundly effecting from my standpoint.
DFP: I don’t really know what to ask about the church fires, but if you could just comment on them.
AD: We’ve had a rash of church fires in AL, 4 of them in my district, 6 of them in other parts of the state. Arson’s a very difficult crime to solve; by definition, the physical evidence at the scene is degraded or deteriorated, and you don’t leave a lot of hallmarks behind when you commit an arson. Most arsons are solved by people talking too much, by people telling someone what they did. Most of the characters who commit arson are sociopaths who don’t have a lot of friends, but they’re also people who pride themselves son their skill and they think they’re doing something very skillful.”
Reporter’s Note: At this point in the interview, the tape recorder ran out of room. Davis finished his remarks on the church fires by saying he doesn’t know if the fires were racially motivated or not. Five of the ten churches where black-dominated and five white-dominated, but you can’t tell a Congregation’s makeup from its outside. Race aside, all ten churches were Baptist, and Davis has in the past called the arsons hate crimes.
DFP: As the regional co-chair for the DCCC, what is your outlook on this coming November?
AD: I think the outlook is better than we could have remotely imagined this time a year ago, for two reasons. I think that the Republican Party has drifted away form the American people on a variety of issues. The country no longer perceives the Republican Party as having a competent set of economic solutions; the country no longer perceives the Republican Party as able to bridge differences that exist in America. I think that the Party is increasingly seen as being just irrelevant, [and] not being in tune with the day-to-day things that people worry about.
Second of all, I think that the DCCC has done a very skillful job of recruiting good candidates. There are substantially more races in play in early 2006 than there were in early 2004, or early 2002, for the Democratic Party. I think you have the atmospherics, in terms of the country’s mood; I think you have the mechanics and the logistics in terms of the right candidates. The challenge is obviously how the Democratic Party counters the Republicans in September and October, how we handle the counter-attack, [and] how we handle the counter-thrust.
The ’02 cycle looked to be a good one for Democrats until the Republicans turned the security issue into a wedge issue. The ’04 cycle looked to be a good one for Democrats until the Republicans managed to once again turn the security issue into a wedge issue. They’ve signaled that they’re going to do that [in ’06. Karl] Rove has already announced that the strategy is to brand Democrats as being weak on security and national defense. I am very hopeful that this time those kinds of distraction politics won’t work.
DFP: Can you give an estimate on how many seats we will pick up?
AD: We need to gain 15 seats to gain control in the House. If the election were held tomorrow, I think we would stand to certainly gain a good 8 or 9 seats, just based on the internal numbers I’ve seen…[But] any predictions today are obviously written in sand. It is impossible to know what the mood of the country will be in October.
DFP: You have a pretty bipartisan reputation, and it’s evident why after your lecture. Who are the easiest Republicans to work with?
AD: There are two people I have a lot of respect for. One of them is Rob Portman, the U.S. Trade Representative who was formerly a member from Ohio. The other is Bobby Jindal from Louisiana. Both of them are exceptionally sharp; they are exceptionally knowledgeable about issues, and while I disagree with them on a whole range of issues, they bring a thoughtfulness to politics, and they also don’t de-legitimize people who disagree with them. They will argue your ideas, but they don’t argue character back and forth, and I think that that’s a good thing.
There are obviously all kinds of other people you build relationships with. The Alabama delegation is a pretty cohesive one, and I often point to someone who is virtually unknown in most parts of the country, Spencer Bachus. Spencer Bachus, if you pulled his voting record down, is someone you would see is a standard conservative Republican, [but] the reality is he’s been one of the leading catalysts in Congress on third world debt relief…on relieving the incredible burden that underdeveloped nations face that prevent them from fully educating their children or dealing with wastewater treatment. For a conservative Republican to embrace that kind of issue speaks volumes, and in addition to that fact, he has been a strong and effective critic of predatory practices by credit card companies.
DFP: What does the election of John Boehner say about the Republican Party?
AD: Well, personally I like John Boehner. John is a very amiable guy and he is one of the people on the other side who is always friendly and who knows your name and takes the time to speak with you, and is personally a very, very nice guy.
John Boehner is a conservative Republican who I don’t think was greatly distinguishable from Roy Blunt. I’m not really sure what the Republican leadership contest was about; it certainly was not really about issues or a different direction for the party. I don’t think that John Boehner’s going to be terribly consequential to this election. I feel a little bit sorry for him, because if they lose seats he’s going to be blamed. I think he’s not had a whole lot to do with it, and I just can’t imagine them gaining seats. So I feel sorry for him, politically, but I think the reality of it is there are fundamental issue differences between the two parties. As long as we are debating and
disputing those differences in a respectful manner, in a manner that recognizes the legitimacy of both sides, I’m comfortable with that.
What I hope John Boehner will change is the all-or-nothing atmosphere of the Republican Caucus that Tom DeLay believed in. I hope that [Boehner] is willing to listen to Democrats’ ideas about how to make the drug bill… [and] No Child Left Behind a heck of a lot better—that’s a bill that he authored. DeLay was not interested at all in hearing another perspective. In fact, DeLay didn’t want Democratic support for his bills because he wants to say to K Street [lobbyists], “You know you’ve got to beat these people, they’re voting against you at every turn.” I hope that John Boehner brings us different politics.
DFP: Do you think Nancy Pelosi has been effective as the minority leader?
AD: I think she has been, and I point to two things that people often don’t think about. Nancy Pelosi made a very skillful tactical decision regarding Social Security a year ago. There was enormous pressure on the Democratic Caucus to take a definitive stand or to put forth a definitive set of policy proposals, and if that had happened…whatever we put on the table would have been mischaracterized, would have been de-legitimated, and would have been twisted or distorted into something that it wasn’t, and I think that Nancy made a very skillful, tactical choice that’s been borne out by not engaging in the specifics of the issue and by arguing for a core set of values around social security as opposed to getting lost in the policy issues.
Second of all, I think people underestimate how difficult it is to build unity within the Democratic Caucus. The Democratic Caucus is an incredibly diverse collection, much more so…than the Republican Caucus. It’s not just racially diverse, it’s not just ethnically diverse; it is ideologically diverse. It’s diverse in terms of background, and frankly, if you look at the Republican Caucus, it’s a much narrower shade, if you look at just who is in the House and who is a Republican. So I think that the leader’s task is far harder, and there are people in the Party, groups like MoveOn, that argue why can’t she build a consensus on the war, why can’t she build a consensus on you name it. The reality is that’s not the task of the leader. The task of the leader is not to build a policy consensus; the task of the leader is to manage the institutional politics of the House….
I think a lot of people misunderstand her role, but I think she has been an enormously valuable leader, and I think, frankly, she makes a statement that the Democratic Party is fully willing to empower a competent, talented female. She’s not there as a quota, she’s not there as part of any kind of agenda or task. She’s there because her qualifications were the ones that won out, but it’s a pleasant and good thing that those qualifications happen to be present in a female.
DFP: I know you paid attention to the DNC leadership race; did you support Simon Rosenberg in that race? [Davis had mentioned Rosenberg, head of the New Democrat Network, during his lecture.]
AD: I did, I did. I openly supported Simon, campaigned for him. It was the wrong time. Gov. [Howard] Dean obviously had significant support at the Democratic Party activist level. … It is very hard to campaign for party chair. It’s not really clear what you’re campaigning for; you are not the chief spokesperson for the party, so no matter how articulate… or great a messenger you may be, it’s really not what you do. It is very hard to really advance an agenda that fits the whole party, because a lot of the people voting in the contest just want to know if you’re going to cut a check to their state parties, so you have a lot of very narrow factions that control that process that have a narrow agenda, and it’s very hard to have a larger agenda about the direction of the party cut through that contest, so that was the problem that I think Simon faced.
DFP: Most politicians, when asked about later running for higher office, duck the question. Why are you so open about 2010?
AD: I have said that I will look at the Governorship in 2010 if it’s open or the Senate seat if Senator Shelby retires, and the reasons are fairly straightforward; when asked a question, I believe in answering it. A lot of politicians believe in giving non-answers. If I know the answer, and if I have an opinion, I’m willing to state it.
Obviously, being elected Governor or Senator from Alabama would be an enormously daunting task, for a variety of reasons….It’s a doable task if you can articulate the issues that resonate with enough voters. It’s a doable task if you can find a way to articulate what your core values are, and I don’t think that Alabama is fundamentally different from Tennessee, or fundamentally different from other states where African American candidates may be running—Ohio, for example. I think the test in politics today is whether you can persuade people who don’t necessarily agree with you on every issue.
DFP: Thank you, Congressman.